Venturing into the entrepreneurial journey is like setting sail into uncharted waters. The vast expanse of possibilities, coupled with the unpredictability of the business landscape, demands a strategic approach and a resilient mindset. In this blog, we distill the wisdom shared by industry leaders, unveiling the keys to success and offering invaluable advice to navigate your entrepreneurial journey.

Ready to delve into this transformative discussion? Dive into the full episode now! 

Key Insights:

1. Embrace Uncertainty with Confidence:

   Uncertainty is inherent in entrepreneurship. Successful entrepreneurs embrace it with confidence, turning it into a canvas for success.

2. Build a Resilient Crew:

   Emphasizing the importance of assembling a resilient and skilled team, advice is to surround yourself with individuals who complement your strengths and compensate for your weaknesses.

3. Iterate and Pivot:

   Advocating for iteration and adaptability, the advice is not to be afraid to pivot. The ability to recognize when a change in course is necessary can be the difference between sinking and sailing.

Tips and Quotes:

The emphasis is on a purpose-driven approach. "Your business is more than a profit-making vessel; it's a force for positive change. Align your compass with a higher purpose, and success will follow."

Highlighting the significance of continuous learning, the advice is to stay curious, adapt, and let the currents of knowledge propel you forward.

Authenticity is the anchor that fosters trust. "Be true to your values, and let authenticity be the anchor that secures your business in the hearts of your customers."

Sailing Toward Sustainable Success

As entrepreneurs set sail on their business voyages, the synthesis of confidence, purpose-driven navigation, resilience, learning mindset, and authenticity forms a potent formula for success. Embrace uncertainty with confidence, build a resilient crew, navigate with purpose, cultivate a learning mindset, and anchor in authenticity. Let these principles be your guiding stars, steering you toward a horizon of sustainable success in the vast seas of entrepreneurship. Subscribe to The Ensaun Experience on YouTube for more insightful discussions!

 A little Sneak peak into the conversation :

 "Embrace change as a constant in your life. Understand that growth often comes from stepping out of your comfort zone. Be open to new experiences and challenges, as they can be opportunities for learning and development. Remember the importance of balance in your life—balancing work, personal life, and self-care is crucial for overall well-being. Cultivate a mindset of resilience, viewing setbacks as learning experiences that contribute to your journey. Surround yourself with a supportive network of people who inspire and challenge you. Ultimately, the pursuit of knowledge and personal growth is a lifelong journey, so enjoy the process and celebrate your successes along the way."

Subscribe to The Coaches Journey Podcast for more trainings!

Kickstart your online coaching business from the comfort of your home by subscribing to The Coaches Journey Podcast! If you're new to the world of coaching & eager to learn how to build a coaching business online, you're about to tap into a wealth of expert insights. Your hosts, Dr. Sheri Fluellen and Faisal Ensaun, bring an impressive 22 years of combined coaching and business experience to the table. Discover how to leverage the digital landscape to connect with your ideal client & how to build a sustainable, lucrative online coaching business. Everything you need starts when you push PLAY!

Transcript

Coaching History Advance with Kimberly Brenner I&O

Stay tuned and be sure to subscribe to this podcast. Now, here are your hosts of the coach's journey podcast.

Faisal Ensaun: Amazing coaches. We are here with a very exciting guest, Kimberly Brenner. Here. We're gonna be talking about the history of coach coaching. And I just realized the history goes much longer than I was born because

Kimberly Brenner started

coaching in 1984. I'm looking at them. I'm like, that's when I was born.

So. Longer than a lot of the coaches that are here,

So we're going to talk about

what, well, what,

what, why do we learn history? I think one of my, one of my favorite subjects is [00:01:00] actually history. And, and, and I want to kind of frame this right. And I've seen this with my clients, with myself as well as when we, if we, if we understand our own story, we understand how we're showing up in the world.

We understand our own patterns. And, and usually I've found out with my clients as well as when they don't know how to connect their own story with to their past and they don't know how to make sense of it. They don't know how to process it. They usually have stuck points right now and I do a lot of work in that area.

And personally for myself, I've had to really work on that area and deal with a lot of those things. And when I look at history at a bigger level is the story of humankind. Now, a lot of people don't know history and this is why we have phrases like history repeats itself because none of us know what's going on.

And then in this case, in this context, the history of coaching will help us understand how it's evolving and how you can leverage that to build your coaching business and actually see where it's going because it is very exciting. And when you look at the evolution [00:02:00] because evolution of coaching because it is blowing up, but what does that mean for you?

So tune in because Kimberly is going to inspire us with her perspective on coaching and work because she came in in the beginning stages of coaching when there was Tony Robbins and some, some of the names that I didn't even know that Kimberly shared. So she's going to talk about it. It was Thomas Leonard.

And all these guys who were the beginning of coaching world and what was happening then and what has been happening since now Kimberly is also an author. And she'll talk a little bit about that she works with couples at this point, and she's worked with individuals and couples in the past, but she works with couples right now and I know her, her perspective on it, and she's a master at it.

So I'm excited to hear perspective on that as well. I want to get Kimberly to get started. Maybe she can Kimberly, maybe you can get started a little bit about your journey as to like just an overview of what got you into coaching and what has [00:03:00] helped you keep going all these years to this day.

And you're still doing this work. He's still serving at the highest level. Please share. It's so great to have you on our podcast.

Kimberly Brenner: Thanks, guys. Thanks. Thanks. Hi, Daniel. You know, many, many years ago I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine and I said, you know, people come to me to figure things out. You know, my whole life I was like, why do people do what they do?

And I've been doing that since I entered high school, studying people. Why do they do what they do? And so I'm talking to this lawyer friend and I said, I really want a business where I can help people figure things out. And his response was, there's no such thing. Now, this was back in the 70s, and he says, there's no such thing.

And I'm like, okay, so I, I believed what this lawyer was telling me. I thought he was a lot smarter than me, but I already knew that people needed to figure things out and they were coming to me already. [00:04:00] But it wasn't until I was sitting next to somebody, another therapist in a classroom, and she was enrolled in coach you now coach you was the very first coaching school created by Thomas Leonard back in the the early 90 1992.

Okay. And I'm like, really, there's a school like that, but I was already doing coaching I was an executive performance coach for corporations back then. But it came from NLP. Neurolinguistic programming, I got very involved with that back in the late 80s. In fact, I decided with my last dollar, I'm telling you, I was so stretched with my money at the time.

But I went and, and flew to Switzerland and studied with the premier people in NLP for an entire month and a half. I know I would open my window and look at the [00:05:00] Swiss Alps. It was the most incredible experience. And then when I came back, I started a company called Meta Power, and I would help people make their whatever goal that they had.

I would help them achieve it in 6 sessions and that was my magic number and it still is my magic number. So that was my beginning of coaching back in the, what was a 1990, I think, and that's when executives were hiring people. But I want to talk about the history of coaching, not so much about my history.

And by the way, I did, I did study with Thomas Leonard. I did have the privilege of studying with Thomas Leonard and studying with, with Tony Robbins when he very first started, where he would say, I will fix your problem in one session. And I would follow him and I would go, okay, my challenge is I'm going to fix your problem in one session and play the game.

But anyway. Interesting thing about coaching. If you [00:06:00] really look at coaching, what was it helping people with self development going within it started back in before BC with Aristotle and Socrates and Confucius. Can you imagine what it would feel like if you got to sit down with those people and just listen to them?

I would be in awe. I would love to do that. So, for me, sitting and listening to Tony Robbins or when Thomas Leonard was alive or anybody, it's such a privilege to learn from wisdom. And I think that's what coaching is. You learn from wisdom, you give your wisdom and you bring the wisdom out in the individual.

And that's what you did for me to sell. When you spoke with me a couple of days ago, you brought the wisdom out in me. And that's what makes a great coach. And I appreciate that. So coaching really the word coach, this is so [00:07:00] interesting in the, in the 15th century in a Hungarian little town, somebody created a buggy that was, that was run by somebody else, you know, back then a buggy was you, you did it.

You got behind the wheel of the horse, so to speak, but they created something where somebody else drove you and they called it a coach. And the coach, the whole definition of the coach was getting you from one state to another and that's what it meant. And so, in the, in the early 20th century, that terminology was used in sports.

If you look at the Olympics, they would hire people who knew how to make you better in sports. And eventually, years later in colleges, there was something called sports psychology. Like looking at how do you [00:08:00] think, how do you, how do you make the how do you win? And then it translated through therapists and psychologists into working with individuals.

The whole self development program started in the late 20th century. And it wasn't until the 21st century that there was actually an organized group, and that was created by Thomas Leonard. Where he created coach you and then he decided and back. Can you imagine paying 5, 000 back in

1992? That was a lot of money. That was a lot of money. And so what Thomas was noticing is that the people that were coming, he wanted more people to learn how to coach. So what he did is he took a hiatus from coach you, you know, when you look at his history, it says he never sold it. That's not true. He did sell coach you [00:09:00] and he did.

So, and he took a 5 year non compete clause. And during those 5 years, Thomas lived in an RV and he travels. Everywhere, and he spent five years formulating something called coach bill, and he wanted it to be more affordable for people so when he offered it back in 1980, what was it 1980, no 1997, I think he was charging $895.

for a lifetime coaching program. And of course I jumped on it. I couldn't afford coach you back then, but I could afford Thomas's Leonard Coachville. So I jumped on his coaching program. And what people need to know about the coaching is there's a skill. How do I coach? And then there's a business.

How do I turn coaching into a [00:10:00] business? And I know that's what your program does. You not only do the skill development, but you're also looking at how do I turn this into a business. And that's the evolution of coaching right now, where before the individual would hire you as a coach, so you needed that top level skill.

But now, if you're going to create it into a business, which is the direction of coaching, you need what you have to offer. And that is teaching them how to turn it into a business. So that is the history of coaching. So, so Tony Robbins, I think is a pretty well known person who coaches. And again, it's, he focuses on your internal structure.

Hey guys, do you remember walking on fire? Yep. That was his thing, where it was mind over matter. If you can [00:11:00] help the individual recognize there's something within that is keeping you from achieving. And then work on that as well as the what to do, you know, who to be. I look at it that way, who to be, and then what to do, and then turn that into a business.

But and then with the internet, you know, when coaching started, we didn't have the internet. It was all word of mouth. I would knock on doors. I would get, go to organizations. I would talk to people about what I did and they would look at me like, really? Oh, that's so interesting. And it was unique. It was unique.

But now it's not. And I, I think it is more difficult to get that person to hire you because there's so much out there. It's a smorgasbord of coaches out there and how do you pick one? How do you know to pick that particular person?

Faisal Ensaun: I love this. Thank you. Thank you for that [00:12:00] history lesson. I love that you connected it back to people like Socrates, Aristotle and these guys.

I mean, I love studying that that part of history, and I love the dialogues between them. And actually, if you go in a lot of my coaching is actually influenced by those kind of dialogues to go deeper question things at a deeper level. And even if you go further back, like, in, like, ancient cultures in like a normal part of development for anybody to have.

And then to have in their community, and we were talking about this a little bit before the podcast that. This, this, if you really look at it, this was part of human community it was conducted, it was held by people who were the, the, the holders of wisdom. A lot of times they were, they were the elders, the medicine doctors, those kind of people within the tribe.

Or somebody else within the tribe who thought differently, who approached things in a different way, who thought differently from others, but they, they revered them. But just like a lot of other things that [00:13:00] kind of got dropped off. Like, when you go back to the industrial age, everything got compartmentalized family structures like family units separated.

We went towards to our separate family units versus living in the same space or in the same general space with that. A lot of things get dropped off used to be that elders used to live in the same community and they had a specific function around supporting the community. They wouldn't retire.

That was a very interesting, the idea of retirement that came up around this time too. Retirement was never a thing for human beings. It was, they took on a different role. They were less with their physical body, but they did something else. And even so there's and there was a lecture I was listening to in India, when somebody would get to a retirement, they didn't call it retirement, get to an age where their normal responsibilities were done with their kids and everybody else.

They would actually go on a spiritual journey. And for that spiritual journey [00:14:00] to start, they would get a guide. Who is somebody who would take them there. In fact, they would have to actually shed their, their, their clothes, their identity, name all of it to go on that spiritual journey. So they can come back in it with a with a bigger identity to their community and tribe, they would bring back the wisdom which was very interesting and they even had a two terms for and I don't know if I can remember it, and the first stage that initial stage up until like 60 years old, something like that was rehearsed as something they had a Sanskrit word for it and then.

The second stage, which they would just go that I know the translation, but I don't know the actual word was forest dweller, they would have to actually, it was actually the tradition was that they would that they would literally shut their clothes. Some would even go naked to the forest, but a lot of the times it became with the white cloth.

They would meet with their guide, somebody who had gone through that journey, and they would go on a spiritual journey. But the purpose of that is so you can gain more wisdom and come back to your tribe. It was [00:15:00] not to retire. And I think a lot of these functions disappeared over time in, in human community.

But now there's a research of these things coming up in different ways, whether it comes through coaches, therapists all sorts of other different modalities of healing. It's coming back around because there's a need and demand for it. And I want to talk a little bit about as we move forward as what's happening when there are more and more coaches coming into the picture.

What does that mean for coaches who are starting a business in the new age, in the AI and business age? But I'd love to hear a little bit from Daniel around this as well, because he's been around a little bit, he's actually been longer in the coaching world than I have.

Daniel Fernandes: wEll, I love all the things you just brought up Faisal, and also Kimberly, thank you for sharing a lot of that history of coaching.

The one thing that I remember learning about, I was at a coaching seminar, of course I've been to many, as I'm sure we all have. And I looked this up just before our session today on the podcast and the term coach actually appeared also in an Oxford dictionary around [00:16:00] tutors. To get like they were carrying you through to the exam or whatever.

It was like in the 1800 early 1800s. And I thought that was a really interesting point like a coach is what carries you this kind of we're talking about the carriage. You know the coach is almost like there's a carriage that you create this container for somebody else and you have to go from where they are today to somewhere else or between states right and I love that word states that you use it's like.

We're going between states, like, that could be a pun, right? It's like, it's a state as like a location or a state as like a state of being, a state of what you're, what you're experiencing. There's so many pieces of that. And I think we're all beneficiaries of, you know, going back thousands of years to this process of guiding and coaching and so much for joining me.

The Socratic method is a really, you know, as far as I said, like, you know, and you said to Kimberly is like, if you could be there to listen to them doing this at the beginnings, at the beginnings of this process as they're really developing the system. And, you know, sometimes [00:17:00] the thing that occurred to me is sometimes as coaches we get.

We, we get scared of judgment. And so, especially for newer coaches, it's like, Oh, do I really come out and say these things that I still need to be said? And so like, if I think about Socrates and like he, he was, you know, put to death because he was corrupting the youth by asking Socratic questions.

He's, he's really

mostly just asking questions.

And so even today you can see that kind of, that kind of cultural challenge. People asking questions or people saying truths that people don't want to hear. It's, it's, you know, it's not as hard as being pointed to the death today in our country in America, but, or Canada, but there are countries where things that you say can still put you to death.

And so I think I just, I just mean, I really appreciate the freedom that we have to practice coaching, to to practice Like the Socratic method and to really question things that not everybody has. So I was just feeling really grateful. You know, given the history, it's not over. Like the history is still going and people are still [00:18:00] coming to terms with new technologies and new social structures around things that make it possible or not possible to coach in different contexts.

So a little bit of gratitude that we've come a long way that we have this opportunity right now.

Kimberly Brenner: You know, you're right, Daniel, the, the questioning, you know, Tony Robbins talked about Give yourself five questions, ask yourself five questions, or the state of your life is determined by the questions you're asking.

So if you're asking questions and making yourself think, and it's different than the community you live in, they're, they're going to be fearful. A lot of people are afraid. Of people who think or who question and we want to kill fear. So you're right. It's like great leaders and great thinkers have been put to death.

So, I would hope that that doesn't make a coach feel [00:19:00] afraid to step out there and help people understand and question better. Anyway,

Narrator: I don't hear.

Faisal Ensaun: There, there is another point here, too. And I love the way this conversation is going because people are not put to depth on this side of the world, but there is a huge movement around suppression of expression and in a sense as well, even though, like, the freedom of expression is a huge thing in the Western world.

But now, the complexity is increasing so much as people are coming together our lines of communication is becoming more open. People don't know how to talk anymore. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten on a call with a client. Like, these are, like, very successful professionals entrepreneurs.

And they're 40s, 50s, 60s. And especially when I talk... One of the things I always like asking is, like, Are there any areas that you might not be showing up as your best? [00:20:00] One of those, and usually you start to see the reaction and I get one of two reactions. If somebody is really like a courageous, bold leader, it's like, no, in fact, I feel like I show up a little bit too much to be honest.

Like they never hesitate, but then you get a different quality of answer around that. Maybe like they will sit and think. In most places. Yes. But then in this other place, I can't in one of two places that happens one in their professional life. They struggle to speak their mind to even in their own like relationship in their own marriage.

They don't know how to express themselves. They don't know how to speak their truth. And what ends up happening is that often you see is that there's a there's a block in there and there's a there's a courage problem. And but there there's a reason for that. There's a there's a reaction. They're afraid of a reaction on the outside, and I wouldn't say it's all on them that they they decided to do this or that.

But [00:21:00] there is a general thing that's happening out the world where people don't know how to express. People don't know how to show up with courage. People don't know how to do it. I didn't struggle with that for a long time to this day. I struggle at times when should I be speaking this? Should I not be speaking this?

But I do my best to navigate that situation. But I lean towards let's speak your mind. Speak your heart wherever it is. But I think we're also talking about how do we develop better leaders who actually create environments where people feel safe to share people and don't feel judge people don't feel scrutinized.

And by the way, it's not a lot of people are afraid of being judged sometimes more than death itself. It's like what was that thing people are more afraid of.

Public speaking... of public

Daniel Fernandes: speaking to the point where they're more afraid of it than death, so they'd rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy, is that what you're talking about?

Faisal Ensaun: Yeah,

yeah, something

like that. So, so there is a big, big challenge in there around that, [00:22:00] and I think a big part of what I try to do with my clients is help them understand how they can create a community around them, or people around them where they are free to speak their mind, they are free to engage with integrity, they are...

They do create communities where people feel safe to share. People are open to feedback. And that's actually a huge part of our culture and seems is that whatever feedback we have, no matter how painful it is, we want to give it. We don't want to hold it back. Of course, we give it with kindness and compassion, but That's what helps us grow as human beings, as coaches, that's like, we need to understand what's the positive and negative that we're doing that we're showing up with.

And just so some, if somebody's wondering, we all come up with that to show up with both sides.

Kimberly Brenner: I have a question for you, Daniel. What question do you give your coaching clients that opens them up? Because we heard the cells, and I love it when he asked that question, it made them think, what question do you have?[00:23:00]

Oh, there's, there's

Daniel Fernandes: like too many questions. I don't, that's such a broad question. It depends on the, on the context. Sometimes, sometimes what a, a, a really good direction to go, I find, is to talk about other people in their life. It's like, How does that impact the people around you? Right? And like people often don't spend time thinking about that.

It's like there's something happening to them, but they can't take action towards it. But then when they start thinking about other people, they're like, Oh, you know, this is really affecting my kid or my spouse or my, my family. And it's like, it's actually really hard for them. Now I'm starting to get some motivation to actually do something about it sometimes.

So sometimes when you take the focus away from stuff, because a lot of the times many clients get stuck in their own. in their own head and in their own self. And a lot of the time, if you can get people out of their own self you can get them unstuck a bit. And so opening them up to like the greater world around them and, and and living more connected with what's really happening out there, what's probably [00:24:00] happening can often, often help them shake loose.

Right. How about you, Kimberly? I would ask you the same

Kimberly Brenner: question, then. You know, it's interesting. I actually do the opposite, because I work with couples. And when couples show up, they want to point fingers at their partner. It's because of my partner and what they're doing, and they want me to fix their partner.

The question I start out with at the beginning of every one of my new clients is, I help people figure things out, and I'm good at it. And that's what I start with, and it always gets a chuckle. They'll be like, oh, okay, great, we're in the right place. And then I say, what do you need to figure out because I can get them to look at what they're contributing or what they're doing to make the relationship fall apart or not work, then I have some traction.

Otherwise, they're off to the races talking if I said what the problem, what's the problem. The [00:25:00] problem always is the other person, not them. So for me, I have to keep it them rather than the other person works every time. So every session it's, you know, what do you want to figure out? And then they give me their problem and then we figure it out.

Daniel Fernandes: Yeah. And that actually works with individuals too, not just the couples, right? It's like, what do you want to figure out? What do you most need to figure out? And let's figure it out. Right. So,

Kimberly Brenner: and since I've only worked with the area of relationships. You know, how do you relate to people? And why is this a problem?

And the other thing that I talk about is Every solution or everything we do is a solution to a perceived problem. So I will ask them whatever they're doing. Is that going to solve the problem that they have, which also gives me some traction to to discover what they think is a problem. And also their thinking, their thinking process as to.

This is my [00:26:00] problem, and this is how I'm solving it. So that's my point. I

Daniel Fernandes: love that. It's kind of like talking about assumptions that are hidden inside about what the problem even is and what the right path to solve that perceived problem is. And both of those could be wrong.

Kimberly Brenner: Yeah, because people come to me and say, I don't know if I want to stay married to this person.

I want a divorce. And when we really get down to the question of what problem would that solve. They realize that divorce wouldn't solve the problem,

Daniel Fernandes: right? Right.

Faisal Ensaun: I love that. I love that approach. I want to stick to the theme of what we're talking about and maybe we can go a little bit into the future of coaching.

So, since we talked a little bit about the past and how far we've come. Kimberly, what are your thoughts about since you mentioned a little bit about there are more coaches now than before it is the market seemingly at least there are a lot more [00:27:00] coaches and what does that mean on the business side?

What does that mean on the on the skill set side? What does that mean for and serving our clients in a better way? What does that mean for the coaching industry moving forward? What are some of your thoughts in there? I'm

Kimberly Brenner: curious as watching the whole coaching idea of becoming a business, watching it becoming a business, a real business for people to recognize.

We are a Socrates and Aristotle Confucius. We are that and to make it a business. Just like Steve Jobs said I'm going to put a computer in everybody's home. That was his goal because he knew that if a, if a family had a computer in their home, they had the access to the entire world in their home.

They could get information quickly. They didn't have to buy a book of encyclopedias [00:28:00] and search and search and search for answers. So, what's happening is time has speeded up. We want information. We want to pack a lot into our life. And having a coach will do that. So, I do think at some point that everyone who wants to achieve more and get more out of life will have a coach.

Just the same as we have a computer in our home, we will have access to a coach. And I love that idea. I would love to structure my business. Where my clients or people that are married would have me as a coach where they could call me up and say, I'm struggling or this is what happened or, you know, something happened with my husband and he's different.

Now, what, what do I need to do? Do you know, the number 1 reason for divorce or the number 1 response for divorce is a death of a parent that blew me away. People don't know how to handle difficult [00:29:00] things. And it affects their marriage and their marriage affects their job. So having somebody that they can reach out to, and that's really what I am with my clients right now.

They'll reach out to me and say, I'm struggling with this. What do I need to do? I want people not to feel alone and having a coach will make them feel they're not alone. We need to belong. We need to learn. We need to be able to sit with wisdom. So coaches, develop your wisdom, develop your integrity, develop your sense of self, and share it with other people.

And to be open to

1. So I do think that that is the direction of coaching. I Take coaching is also shifted, where now you have a niche. And you have to talk to the one particular kind of [00:30:00] person where before it was helping the person get from where they are to where they want to go as the definition of what a coach was from one state to another.

Now, coaching is about, there's an arm of coaching that is about teaching and mentoring. Rather than actually coaching. So I don't know where that's going to go. It seems to be helping a lot of women create a business where they couldn't create a business before and still take care of their family.

So that's been interesting. So there's more women entering the field of coaching than men because they can stay home with their children. They can coach people online. They can help other mothers. They can help mostly women with whatever issues women are dealing with. So,

Faisal Ensaun: so I, I came from an event and I was in Tallinn last year.

And [00:31:00] like, whenever you go to events, you're posting pictures and everything. Estonia, right? It was in Estonia. It was a mind Valley. It was a coaches event, but then they had mind Valley University events running the whole month, basically, but I was there for like, 4 or 5 days. I come back. It was my grandmother in law.

She was sitting in front of me. She just looks at me. She blurted out. I

was like, why are you taking pictures with all these women all the time?

I'm like the only guy. I'm like, first of all, my wife was there. I was like, she knows why. He's like, there are 90 percent of them are women there. They're little like five guys in the whole thing.

Like, that's why. And second, that's my business.

Daniel Fernandes: Well, I think, I think you're, you're all talking about something really interesting about how the dynamics of the coaching world has shifted, but also the coach coaching has, as you said, Kimberly is kind of merged with entrepreneurship and business. And that's kind of a, I would say Last [00:32:00] several decades kind of thing.

But that's a good thing too, because what it means is people have to have a business model that works and adds value that people are willing to pay for. As you said, like, I want to help people figure things out and I want to get paid for it. Well, figuring things out is valuable, as we figured out, and you can get paid for it.

And so one of the, there's a couple of trends that you've touched on Kimberly that I want to highlight. One is

Faisal Ensaun: the, , the,

Daniel Fernandes: the special, the transit work specialization and niching, because as you start coaching and advise all on me are both examples is as you start coaching people just generally.

And there's still a market for that I would say just general coaching and transformational coaches and life coaching all that. There's still a market for that, and you can get paid well for that. But as you start doing more and more that you realize you have. A nap for something, or you have a special area that you want to focus in.

And also the business part of that makes you need to do that. If you want to scale properly, it's going to be really hard to bring together a random group of people that don't have a shared goal or shared mission. And so when you start scaling your marketing and your [00:33:00] business needs to. Kind of, it kind of forces you into like a little bit of a specialty and sometimes that specialty is general nature in that like, oh, like it can be pretty broad, but sometimes it's very specific.

Like, for example, Faisal works with real estate investors. Right. And so There's this trend towards specialization, I think is healthy and natural for most coaches as a progression. And also it aligns well with business. But then there's another trend that's happening right now is this like a, it's the, it's the next level of what you talked about with Steve Jobs, which is I wanted a computer in every home.

We had that. Now you have the internet in every home. Now we have artificial intelligence. And that's a whole new trend that is going to completely shift the dynamics in coaching. Right now we're using it for things like like meeting summaries and you know, I've been experimenting with it in terms of coaching, how to help coaching.

How to help my clients using AI tools, not just with the meaning of summaries, but like, how can we help them ideate faster using AI tools and so on, but also people are, people are now having relationships with chatbots. There's [00:34:00] actually an entire businesses that are founded around, Hey, have your AI girlfriend or boyfriend, whatever that you can talk to, you can actually talk to, and they're never going to judge you.

And I just read an article about this, that somebody actually had a relationship. And they were talking about this company that they thought was funny. They got bought out and shut down and they were actually feeling very alone because that was the only place they had someone to talk to. And so these artificial relationships are forming.

I think in the future, coaching will also happen through artificial intelligence. I've been using it for various things. It's not at the level where a human coach can, can operate at for sure, but I'm not clear that it's never going to be. And I'm not clear that you can't actually get really good advice from some of this because there are.

Some really great examples out there where AI can really help you in a way that even a human coach might not be able to. So I think there's going to be this shift in coaching towards things that humans are great at that AI won't be. And, and AI will shift into things that AI is great at. Like, for example, coming up with ideas or brainstorming, that might be AI place, but having empathy [00:35:00] and knowing how to morally navigate situations.

Maybe humans will be much better at that. And I, I don't know where it's going, but this is an interesting trend that can dramatically shift. Not only the coaching role, obviously it's shifting everything everywhere. But the business world too, because you can use AI in business now for so many things.

And so these, these two trends of specialization and AI will make it, I think, a lot harder for coaches to start coaching.

Kimberly Brenner: You know, Daniel, you're, you're, you're talking to somebody who is completely focused on relating. Yeah. And do we relate? And there are people that don't know how to relate to another person, so they will move towards the AI relationships.

And and that's, it is what it is. And the focus on the future of connecting. How do we connect? You know, I'm, I, I love sci fi movies. And, you know, movies where they talked about how you can plug in [00:36:00] or wear these, these things on your eyes to be in a virtual room and to have a virtual relationship with somebody and experience something.

And our body reacts to it as real, you know, that's what our mind does. Our mind can create our quote reality. So where are we going and and what's going to happen about how do we relate to other people? Yeah, and That kind of concerns me because I think it is important especially when I work with couples that are dealing with One of the spouses in Relating to something on the internet instead of their wife if you get my drift Disconnected from their wife and connected more with something that isn't real.

They're connected to this fantasy [00:37:00] and trying to put them back into having a connection with reality rather than fantasy. Is is very interesting, very interesting. There's

Daniel Fernandes: entire movies about was like the movie her movies about relationships with, you know, artificially created entities, and I'm not totally clear on, like, what does fantasy mean anymore, in some ways because how how sustainable long term and.

Beneficial. Could that be? I don't know. Sometimes I think those relationships could be better for somebody in a relationship with somebody else who is not beneficial for that person. And so I don't have a good answer to like, what, what is more beneficial? And like, ultimately, I kind of my biases, like human relationships and connection there is really the foundation of our species.

And so if we can start creating really healthy personal relationships with each other, and those other relationships help us learn how to do it. Okay. Great. But I think the danger we run is getting lost in worlds that aren't actually helping us.

Kimberly Brenner: I've [00:38:00] worked with, with men who are lost in the fantasy world, and they don't, they know it's, they know that they're lost.

I'll just put it that way. They know they're lost, but they don't know how not to, they don't know how to leave it. Because it feels like they're actually like you're like you talked earlier where the business went belly up or closed or what have you. And now this person doesn't have anybody to talk to, you know, how do they replace it?

How do they, but they know that something is missing when they do that. So I think we're wired to connect. We're wired to connect and have to relate to people. And if it means that they connect to their coach. And they have the relationship with coach, how many, how many people connected to their therapist, right?

Like, I've got to call my therapist, or I want to share this with my therapist, or I want to run this by my therapist. [00:39:00] So, we need that feedback and a coach can do that doesn't have to be a therapist. It can be a coach. And we haven't even addressed the issue of the difference between being a therapist and a coach.

Daniel Fernandes: Yeah, that's a whole other rabbit hole for another conversation. But, but I do think the point you're making about real human connection. Is powerful is really important one. And you can lose human connections to just like you can use artificial lose artificial ones. But the better we can be as I think one of the calling of coaches is to help others connect and role model that connection in the coaching relationship because so many people aren't connecting in their life at a deep level that we're getting a lot of division in the world.

As a result, if we can like that's why I think coaches are so important right now, like no matter what artificial intelligence there is. I think today I can foresee coaching being super, super relevant, especially given the challenges the world is facing. Like the future of coaching is about connection building and helping people learn to collaborate instead of fight.[00:40:00]

Because there's more to be gained from collaboration in most cases. Like imagine if all of the nations in the world suddenly decided we're all out for everyone's mutual benefit. Today it doesn't seem like it's possible, but what if it were? And doing that on an individual basis on a group basis, a bigger and bigger scales is what really coaching is all about.

I agree. Go ahead.

Kimberly Brenner: I crossed my mind about in the wild West. There were men who traveled to share news from 1 town to the next. Right and and newspapers and the pony express. All of this was. To connect and the internet is connecting us in a way that we have to adjust to it. And maybe coaches will teach us to do that.

How did how do you, but I do think that the whole coaching industry get [00:41:00] shaped by technology at this point. We're learning from technology, how to use technology to bring our message. Just like the Pony Express learned to do that and, and people traveling, we will adapt. With technology. And so that's the business side of what we do, not just this.

Faisal Ensaun: Yeah. And what we're also just as a throwaway and I love the discussion around the relationship. Most, most my clients they come to me for performance improvement when it comes to their professional side, but most of the coaching ends up being about their relationships relationship with themselves and those around them.

Most of it becomes about that. And. Just just as a baseline. It's actually very difficult to it. I've been amazed how difficult it is for people to establish relationships. And I've gone through that myself personally for a while. And [00:42:00] I grew up in a community of people where everybody was around each other.

Like we lived. In an apartment building in front of me, there were there were my there was my uncle. There was my aunt's family. There was my best friend's family on the same floor. We were all like, we didn't know which one was actually our house until our parents would call us and like, we would hang out everywhere and move.

Beyond rooftops. We were always around people, and I had a really tough time kind of relating to people because I didn't know how to express myself properly, but I still connected with people a lot in a lot of ways. But it was very difficult process. Now think about the world that we're in, where kids are growing up with iPads in front of their faces, and they don't get that, they're not forced to see, get the human interaction, and we're seeing the effect of that generation.

We're kind of in between the two, like I didn't grow up with that, but Partly through my, my developmental stage, I got exposed to that, but it was much later. But now one generation behind me. They well ahead of me, they they grew up with iPads. They grew up with with [00:43:00] screens. It was and it becomes much more difficult to relate to other people because it actually takes a lot of energy for for us to make sense of these things.

So and I'm finding more and more that people are having a hard time connecting with their teams with people around them with their communities, like, how do they relate in a complex world like this. I think coaching will play a huge part in there if we have that intention. And for me, like, I'll share my bias around is that it starts with family.

It starts with a community is like, if we lose sight of that and it just becomes about individuals, then we're very much going towards that kind of dystopian world that we had fantasized about in the science sci fi movies, like 1984 and books and those kinds of things where people are looked at as just as.

As a means to an end, rather than us building communities and environments to support each other. And really, I think most coaches will get to a point where they're supporting leaders to build better families, better organizations, better, [00:44:00] better communities, and the better we get at that. And I don't think AI will be to a point where the AI can help people do that.

And that way it might have some advantages like Daniel shared around ideating and bringing together information much faster than humans could. But then there's a huge role that that coaches have in here. And I wanted to address a point that you made about like the concentration of coaches. There are more and more people calling themselves coaches.

There are more and more people are coming around. And this is actually a huge mission that we have in coaching mastery community, because we saw that gap in the industry that. Most of the programs because now there's a there's this effort. A lot of coaches are seeing the potential for it to be a business.

And then there's because there's a demand and the marketplace now you're starting to see all these companies pop up everywhere. Let me teach you how to turn this into a business. Now, this is what's happening. You would hire either a business coach or a which is mostly a [00:45:00] business mentor or a marketing company that you join, or it's like some kind of community that will help you develop your business.

And they will make all sorts of promises around a you're going to make 10, 000 in two months, three months or 100, 006 months or seven figure business and without knowing much about like where you come from, what your skill level is, how much experience you have. And, and I would. share this with coaches that be very cautious of those kind of promises for one thing.

Second, understand that just because there are more coaches in the industry does not mean that most of them are any good, to be honest. And doesn't because here, like the, the work itself and like anybody who's done the work, it's actually, besides the initial excitement, it's like day to day boring more like you're

Daniel Fernandes: getting good at anything, right?

You got to put in the reps, you got to put in the push ups to get strong. Right. And it's like the boring the fundamentals. of like dribbling the basketball every day for [00:46:00] hours a day. It's like that, that sounds boring. If you, if you're not excited by that and getting those reps, it's going to be hard to become a great coach.

Faisal Ensaun: Right. And I can tell you how many coaches I've met and we're going to wrap up soon where they'll be like, you know what, they've just gotten started like in about like six months, maybe a year. I'm sick and tired of one on one coaching. I want to go to a group. You've barely done anything. And when I would ask him, like, how many sessions have you done?

Like, they've done maybe 30 sessions and the whole, I'm like, how could that be too much? It's like, that means that maybe your heart is not in the process, even though you might say it. But it's a lot of work like you have to show up day in day out and actually do the work and understand how this is actually helping clients do the background research and keep that going.

So, I would tell coaches if you're dedicated to this long term, there's not much competition, to be honest, even though there are a lot of coaches out there. And because it actually most coaches will drop off after the second 30 years, especially if you look at it from a business point of view, it's very difficult to build.

Oh, yeah. Those [00:47:00] first three years are so

Daniel Fernandes: hard for new coaches. Oh my gosh. I'm, I, it's a miracle that I made it. I must've really cared about coaching because like it was so hard.

Faisal Ensaun: Yeah. And, and, and that's, that's like when you actually look at it from a business point of view and from a craft point of view, like I would encourage all the coaches to focus on mastery.

You can develop your coaching skillsets. Business is an effect of that. Yes, you need to understand business. But I've seen coaches who know nothing about business and they end up developing a client, a stream of clients, just because their skill sets are really good, but they just don't know how to structure their business.

They just don't understand the principles and they don't charge enough. So they don't make enough. But when you actually look at them like, Oh shoot, you're working with a lot of people. How did that happen? Well, I've been helping people for a long, long time. That's why it happened. So. Coaches do the work.

And also, I do want to wrap it up because we all have actually have sessions, all three of us after this. So we're gonna actually go do the work, but I want to wrap this up. [00:48:00] And this is a longer conversation. I love that we talked about this, that the coaching world is blowing up, but it doesn't. And there are a lot of coaches coming into the picture.

And that does not mean every coach will be successful. And looking at the history This is a rising industry. It's not even an actual industry yet. I think when I look back to the beginnings of psychology, if anybody's interested in this, I recommend this to Kimberly as well. And there's an autobiography for Carl Jung, Memories, Dreams and Reflections.

It shows the beginnings of psychology when Carl Jung and Freud, they were having dialogues and discussing psychology is like, you can tell like those were the beginning stages of it. They were talking about everything from ghosts to all sorts of like, like there were medical doctors talking about ghosts.

No medical doctor talks about ghosts anymore. I

know you do. So,

Daniel Fernandes: so I know we got to talk about ghosts.

Faisal Ensaun: Yes, we definitely need to talk about ghosts, but there's a [00:49:00] potential for this industry to really blow up and coaching master community. We want to be a part of that. We want to we want to be the pioneers and building this because it's exciting.

We want to see like, where it goes. We're collecting a lot of data in that process. And we want to support you. And if you like this conversation, please share your thoughts around this as well. What have you learned about the history of coaching? What do you think is the evolution of it? What does that mean for your coaching business?

And please like this video as well. I want to get, give Kimberly a chance to share how people can reach out to her. She's also a best selling author. You can share a little bit about your book so we can share that in the bottom as well. Go ahead, Kimberly.

Kimberly Brenner: hOld on for a second. Let me pull, pull it off the shelf.

Okay. Good idea. This is the one that's published on Amazon. It is The Gutsy Wife's Guide to Save Your Marriage. Oh, nice. I like it. And the second book that will be published in another month is called Should I Stay or Go? [00:50:00] Navigating Your Gutsy Decision on Your Marriage. So everything has to do with relationships and so it's Kimberly Brenner dot com and I work with a lot of infidelity and making the relationship work and how to communicate to your partners so that you know how to fix whatever problems show up.

So that's what I do.

Daniel Fernandes: So, so they're going to be here is like, Oh, I need that. Like Kimberly Brenner, go, go to her website, get a book contact her. But at the same time, if you're a coach who's listening to this podcast, especially if you're at the beginning stages of journey in the first three, two, two, three years, even check out coaching master community, because we're here to help coaches given the history of coaching and the future of coaching, we're here to help coaches succeed in.

Creating that actual business for coaching. So for all your coaches out there, we'd love to hear from you. You can contact us at coachingmasterycommunity. com. And Kimberly, thank you so much for being with us today. It was so great talking to you. Thank you very

Kimberly Brenner: [00:51:00] much. Thank you.

Daniel Fernandes: Bye. All right. See you

Faisal Ensaun: all next time.

Daniel Fernandes: You're

Narrator: listening to the Coaches Journey

Faisal Ensaun: Podcast.